The Atheist god

whirlpool_galaxy_01If we look at the universe rationally, just observing the universe as it is, what do we see? We see objects that interact with each other based on consistent rules and principles, and science seeks to map out these rules and principles quantifiably and quantitatively.So we see that scientists subject things to experimentation to find out the limits of things, the parameters of their existence, the extent to which those limits affect the limited natures of other objects and phenomena.This is what science does.

The case is that if you were a scientist, you would seek to explain why something behaves in a certain way by looking at its essential nature – regardless of any assumptions you or your culture may make regarding that object.

So for example, if I was to suddenly observe a rock for the first time in the middle of a desert, being a scientist, I’d start analyzing the object in order to deduce not only its size, shape and wieght, but also its origin. It would be silly for me to say this object created itself, because obviously it couldn’t exist beforehand to create itself.It would be silly of me to say that this object has always existed, because if it has, then why does it possess the particular attributes it has (i.e. a certain size, shape and weight), and not another set of particular attributes?

The real argument for the fact that this object had a cause is because it is limited.It has a certain shape; it has a certain color; it has a certain mass.It extends into a certain quantifiable weight and so on, and obviously if I was to investigate it, I would see many different components.So firstly, this object is not something that made itself, because it is limited. And as a scientist it would be my job to discover what caused the limits that this objects possesses.What caused its finiteness to a certain degree that I observe its finiteness as?

It doesn’t matter if I knew if it was made by human beings or not.I can still look at these things.And this is what science does.Science observes limited things and deduces their cause, and it analyzes the principle of cause and effect. This is the case for science.

So why should looking at the universe as a whole be any different? Why is it that when Atheist scientists look at the universe, all of a sudden we want to assume that there is no cause to the universe and that the universe had no origin, yet it still exists consisting of natural laws and limitations?We know that the universe has to have had a cause because the universe is limited; it is finite.And what I mean by this is it is clearly observable in everything that resides in the universe and the fact that we are part of this universe and we are finite.So if the universe is infinite and unlimited, then we should be infinite and unlimited too, because we are elements in this universe.And also the fact that this universe has rules, it has principles, it has constants, and these things are caused. These things are obviously what scientists investigate, the limitations and degree of these constants, principles, and causes.But how and why do these constants, principles, and causes have the particular values that they have?

To believe that the universe itself is infinite in any particular attribute is a blind faith. It is an assumption, because we do not see infinitude in any observed attribute of the universe. It is ‘Atheism of the gaps’ because Atheists say ‘just because we cannot see the infiniteness of the universe, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist’. But this is like I jumped into a pool, and because my feet couldn’t touch the ground I make the assumption that it is bottomless. There are people who might say, “Oh but we know that the Earth is a certain size, so obviously no hole in the ground is going to be bottomless. ” Okay, so let’s say I go back 2000 years. I don’t know how the universe or earth is like. Could I now legitimately say because I jumped into the pool and couldn’t feel it’s bottom that it could be bottomless? No. How do I know this? Because rationally I see that the water is held up at a certain level.Therefore there cannot be an infinite amount of depth to that pool. Then it must be a finite depth, because there is being water held up at a certain level – not higher, not lower. So we know that it’s not infinite water, because if it was infinite water, then why is it stopping at a certain level?Similarly, how can an Atheist now say that the universe is infinitely big just because you haven’t seen the edges? The fact that everything which exists in the universe is limited and that everything has a limiting effect upon each other and it’s forming a whole, we know that it is limited, it is finite. Here is how we know from simple observation:

1. If any one object or phenomena was unlimited, it would be everywhere in the universe and limit out the existence of anything else i.e. nothing except it would or could exist.

2. If the universe itself is unlimited, it must be asked ‘what attribute or thing of the universe is unlimited – so as to make the Universe unlimited?’ if any particular thing is suggested, it would fall foul of clause 1.

3. If multiple objects or things in the universe are unlimited, they would all limit each other out of existence. This is because infinity cannot exist simultaneously with anything else, finite or infinite, in the same ‘existence’.

4. A simple way of knowing that the universe of finite size is, the fact that if it were infinite, then the distance between any two points within the universe would also be infinite. Hence nothing could move or travel. To explain this further, say I take a trip to Tokyo from London. It would take me approximately 18 hours, this is due to its particular position on the earth relative to London, the earths particular curvature and particular circumference. Now, if the earth was of infinite size, how long would it take to travel between London and Tokyo? Indeed, would we be able to reach Tokyo, ever?!

Thus the Universe is finite and it is irrational of Atheists to actually claim otherwise. Some Atheists even have the temerity to say that “The universe exists. Let’s not question its causes”. Well then you might as well throw Rational thinking out of the window, along with science, because without deduction, we would have no knowledge of things beyond that which we can see in front our faces.

The other argument some Atheists say “Oh but if everything is caused and everything is made, then what made God?” Well you see, no one said everything that exists is created and made, I merely demonstrated that only everything finite and limited is created and made.But God, under my definition of God as a Muslim, is infinite and unlimited.So He would not be created. To ask the question ‘What made god?’ is meaningless, because as I said, only created and limited things are created, not something that is infinite and not created.Thus it is like saying ‘What created the uncreated?’, or ‘How much is Infinite?’..etc

Finally, the greatest irony of Atheism, apart from being different, actually has something in common with other religions. This is that every human being on this earth – whether atheist or not atheist – all believe in God, all of us. You see because what is defined as God, is something that is Infinite, unlimited and created everything, and whenever you say that something is infinite, unlimited and the creator of all things, that is your God. So my argument to the atheists is the same as my argument to the Christians.

A Christian says, “Jesus was a man, but he had infinite power”. Alright, but I’ll respond that we can only see a finite and limited human being. Where is his infinitude I don’t see infinite power. He is finite and limited. Therefore he is not infinite and unlimited. Therefore he is not God. The same thing applies to what Atheists say about the universe, it is big, but it is finite and limited, just like a human being. So therefore I will not say, “Oh it’s finite and limited but because it’s quite big, therefore it probably possesses infinite power or dimension that we can’t see”. Ironically that is the same thing a Christian says about Jesus, except that Jesus is smaller than the universe. Thus, all these people (Atheists, Christians, and Hindus etc) believe in similar beliefs that are essentially just the same. They’re mixing the finite and limited things that they can see, with a infinite, unlimited and eternal thing they can’t.

So let us not be irrational and mix them.Let us keep the two separate.Creation is separate from non-creation.Finite is separate from infinite. Limited is separate from unlimited. We as Muslims separate ourselves from the worship or theological belief in the limited things of creation, and we worship that which is unlimited and uncreated.There is nothing worthy of worship expect the infinite, the unlimited being, that which we call Allah.

Categories: ARTICLES, Atheism, Proofs for God, The Muslim Debate Initiative, WRITINGS

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6 replies

  1. Hey bro, can I use your rationalism to do dawah? please reply, thanks.


  2. i showed this to an atheist and he said:
    ” He talks about existence like it is evidence of a God yet it is not, it is evidence only that things exist and basic epistemological theory can tear even that apart.
    He also works on the assumption that God is an infinite being which we have no evidence of. You cannot simply ascribe attributes to a being you have yet to prove even exists, that is begging the question.”
    What do you have to say about this?


    • This article mainly proves the existence of an infinite and unlimited being. You may call this being a God or not, but for the existence of this finite and limited universe, the existence of an infinite and unlimited cause is necessary. As to ascribing attributes, indeed we cannot ascribe attributes to a betting we cannot perceive. We can only prove His Existence, but nothing else by intellect.


  3. Salaam, re: water being perceived to be at a certain level, therefore it has finite depth:

    How is the idea of water with fixed level but infinite depth different from the mathematical idea of negative/positive infinity? i.e. if we set the water level at numerical zero, how is it irrational to conclude that the water depth to be at negative infinity?


    • There is no way of applying infinity in the real world – it does not exist outside the realm of mathematical theory. You can’t have an infinite number of apples or a negative infinite number of bananas.

      Also regarding the idea of limitations of the universe I always use the example of dependency – if something is unlimited it is independent, and likewise if something is limited it is also dependant. Putting this into an example would be the just like man is limited he is dependant on oxygen to exist, amongst many other things.

      The universe is dependant on laws of the universe to exist, a delicate balance of gravity and dark energy keep matter clumped together to form planets, stars, galaxies etc. Now if the laws of the universe didn’t exist matter would not be organised into systems of galaxies and so on.

      You would say that these laws of the universe are more superior and therefore must the ‘God’ in fact these laws are also limited and dependent – they rely/depend on matter to exists in the first place so that they can be applied, similar to a classroom with rules on the board but no students to apply them to – making them redundant.


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